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Jeep - Cherokee>Dana 44 front????
clifford210 10:30 PM 05-07-2008
So I got my 8.8 and now I am looking for a 44 front. What kind of vehicle could I get a hp44 frontend that I can build and put in my xj. Just looking for a beggining please let me know what you think... or any other options. it is going to be on 36's and eventually have an arb in it... let me know thanks...
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xjtony 11:10 PM 05-07-2008
Depends on what application you got your 8.8 from.... Fullsize or explorer 8.8??? But your looking for a HP 44 so im assuming you have a fullsize bronco or f150 8.8. SO:
any 77,78,79 bronco/f100 Dana 44 with the radius arm set up...
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RCman 11:15 PM 05-07-2008
Mr. N did a great job writing up some D44 info on swaps:
Part1
Part2
Part3

Like xjtony mentioned, it really depends on what your 8.8 came from to make the final choice, you might end up narrowing it to fit the width of the 8.8 better.
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88burban 11:16 PM 05-07-2008
Originally Posted by xjtony:
Depends on what application you got your 8.8 from.... Fullsize or explorer 8.8??? But your looking for a HP 44 so im assuming you have a fullsize bronco or f150 8.8. SO:
any 77,78,79 bronco/f100 Dana 44 with the radius arm set up...

^^^ that is if you want the crappy cast wedges of coarse.
the earlier ones had welded ones and the tube goes all the way into the knuckle
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SeanP 11:33 PM 05-07-2008
look for the fords in those years that have the welded on radius arm brackets not the cast ones, unless you actually want to use ford radius arms.
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clifford210 10:33 AM 05-08-2008
my 8.8 is from a 2000 explorer
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REVROK 10:52 AM 05-08-2008
Originally Posted by clifford210:
my 8.8 is from a 2000 explorer
If you are using an exploder 8.8 you need a waggy 44 (without vaccuum disconnect) or a Scout 2to get the right width then swap in Chevy outers on the Waggy (flat top knuckles) with Ford 5 on 5.5 rotors (the Chevy locking hubs will work in the Ford rotor), the Scout has what you need. Then you will need a set of weld on brackets and coil buckets (a million sources) and carefully grind off the old brackets and weld on the new (measure and remeasure). Then for the Waggy get a set of 5x4.5" to 5x5.5" spacers for the rear (1" should be fine)... These will bring the width front to rear close enough and give you the same bolt pattern. Always keep these torqued to 100 ft lbs and they should be all right. Or you could just redrill axles and rotors in the 8.8 to match the front (which is what I would do if using Scout axle).

There are probably a lot of details I am leaving out, but I have done this and it works well. By the way in this width you can either forget an hp44 or buy/build a custom axle.
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xjtony 04:08 PM 05-08-2008
or you could get the little bronco Dana 44 and it is narrow but is a low pinion...
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TJP 04:15 PM 05-08-2008
Just get the good HP D44 and cut it down to use chromoly waggy width axles ith good u-joints. Set the inner C's for the correct pinion /caster relationship. Weld on your perches and mounts. Go high steer if you want with some Chevy or Dodge flat top axles.

Get a C-clip eliminater for the rear with the 5 on 5.5" pattern.
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REVROK 12:32 PM 05-09-2008
Originally Posted by TJP:
Just get the good HP D44 and cut it down to use chromoly waggy width axles ith good u-joints. Set the inner C's for the correct pinion /caster relationship. Weld on your perches and mounts. Go high steer if you want with some Chevy or Dodge flat top axles.

Get a C-clip eliminater for the rear with the 5 on 5.5" pattern.
Essentially a custom axle, but self built. No doubt the best way (unless you go D60). If you do this make sure you have the skills to do it and the budget.
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Sniper8429XJ 04:03 PM 05-09-2008
Why go to all that trouble to build/cutdown the Ford and not just run a late 80's waggy front 44?
I only ask this because I dont know alot about them, and I just picked up an 89 waggy 44. Is there a difference in strength or any cons i should know about?
Sorry to HiJaCk ya just thought it would be a good time and place to ask.
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TJP 04:40 PM 05-09-2008
Originally Posted by Sniper8429XJ:
Why go to all that trouble to build/cutdown the Ford and not just run a late 80's waggy front 44?
I only ask this because I dont know alot about them, and I just picked up an 89 waggy 44. Is there a difference in strength or any cons i should know about?
Sorry to HiJaCk ya just thought it would be a good time and place to ask.
The waggy housing/tubes are thinner making it weaker. The ring gear is being driven on the coast side, so the ring and pinion are weaker going forward. The waggy axle is low pinion so your driveshaft will hit easier. The waggy axle still needs the knuckles turned to have the proper pinion to caster relationships. This is why I suggest using a HP D44. Either axle should be trussed, but the HP D44 is stronger with or with out one.

To properly build a waggy axle it is about the same amount of work. A polished HP D30 is about the same strength as a built waggy axle...
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clifford210 07:14 PM 05-09-2008
Originally Posted by TJP:
The waggy housing/tubes are thinner making it weaker. The ring gear is being driven on the coast side, so the ring and pinion are weaker going forward. The waggy axle is low pinion so your driveshaft will hit easier. The waggy axle still needs the knuckles turned to have the proper pinion to caster relationships. This is why I suggest using a HP D44. Either axle should be trussed, but the HP D44 is stronger with or with out one.

To properly build a waggy axle it is about the same amount of work. A polished HP D30 is about the same strength as a built waggy axle...
is that true... ????????? if I ran chromoly axles and a highsteer and trusssed would I be fine I am going to be running 37's and eventually locked with arb or ox. What axle would do mye the best??? Im open to anything... tha cheaper the better of corse...
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jp4lo 08:28 PM 05-09-2008
Originally Posted by clifford210:
it is going to be on 36's and eventually have an arb in it...
Originally Posted by clifford210:
I am going to be running 37's and eventually locked with arb or ox. ...
What size are you going to settle on:-) Seriously though, will you be running Swampers or something similar (heavy) or a milder (lighter) tire? It makes a difference w/ breakage.

Originally Posted by TJP:
Just get the good HP D44 and cut it down to use chromoly waggy width axles ith good u-joints. Set the inner C's for the correct pinion /caster relationship. Weld on your perches and mounts. Go high steer if you want with some Chevy or Dodge flat top axles.

Get a C-clip eliminater for the rear with the 5 on 5.5" pattern.
X2 - if you have the time.
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clifford210 11:23 PM 05-09-2008
Originally Posted by jp4lo:
What size are you going to settle on:-) Seriously though, will you be running Swampers or something similar (heavy) or a milder (lighter) tire? It makes a difference w/ breakage.



X2 - if you have the time.
haha ya havent decided yet 36 irocs or 37 ssr's what do you guys think? can a built 30 handle it??
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Brad Smith 12:15 AM 05-10-2008
Im not going to get into a big discusion about it, but i have a stock dana 30 under mine with a lockright and 36" Swampers. I know that its a weak link and i treat it as such. And im in the process of upgrading to a dana 60. That being said if you dont have a heavy foot and realize that your front axle is a weak link, then wheel it till it breaks. The only upgrade i did with the d 30was to buy stock D30 shafts out of a newer jeep that had the bigger u-joints than the 1989 used, i beleave any shafts you buy will come with the bigger u-joints and the only problem i had was the caps starting to come out which can be fixed with a little tack weld on the cap. TJP is correct, if you can get it cheap and build it than grab an early ford High pinnion Dana 44 and run it. But if your building it to last than your money is better spent on a D60. Your going to spend the money anyways 44 or 60 go with the bigger axle. the D44 uses the same u-joints as the newer D30 and that was the only part i ever broke on my D30. And i broke those on stock original shatfts that were 15 years old and driving them for the first time with a locker.

Im in SoCal and have ran the hammers, Dusy, Isham Canyon and many more of the big rock trails of souther Cal and i the POS D30 has held up. Again, i drive it knowing that it could break at anytime and keep spare shafts onboard at all times but havent had to use them even with the 36" swampers.
Just my drunken $.02
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MrShoeBoy 08:25 AM 05-10-2008
I run a HP Dana 44 from a '78 Ford F-250 narrow'd to waggy width, ARB, cromo shafts, Yukon joints, Dedenbear knuckles and hi steer. I got a steal of a deal on parts and do all my own work so it wasnt that bad to build for my purpose which is a DD thats very reliable on 35s.

If I had the pile of cash to do it over again (and knowing what I know now :-) ), I would go straight to a Dana 60 or build a 609. Once you get up to a 37, the 44 is kinda at its limits unless you pussy foot through everything :-)

AARON
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Goatman 03:08 PM 05-10-2008
Originally Posted by clifford210:
So I got my 8.8 and now I am looking for a 44 front. What kind of vehicle could I get a hp44 frontend that I can build and put in my xj. Just looking for a beggining please let me know what you think... or any other options. it is going to be on 36's and eventually have an arb in it... let me know thanks...
It depends on whether you want a high pinion housing or not. To get a HP44 you'll need a mid 70's F150 or Bronco. The late 70's housings (I think '78, '79) have cast radius arm brackets that can't be removed, so you need the earlier housing unless you want to run the Ford radius arms. This is a full width housing so it will have to be narrowed. If you're willing to use a low pinion housing, then you can use an '80+ Waggy housing or an early Bronco housing, and they won't have to be narrowed, in fact you might want to use spacers to widen it slightly. Either way, you'll have to deal with a different bolt pattern than you have in the rear, most likely you'd have to change the rear to match the front.

You say you will eventually get a locker. If you don't have the coin to get a locker right now, then you better wait. To make it worth building a front D44 you need to get chromo shafts and axle joints. The D44 Spicer axles aren't any stronger than the Spicer D30 axles, since the weak point is the ears on the shafts. You'll break the shaft ears or the stock axle joints about as often as you would on a D30. A D44 with chromo shafts and aftermarket axle joints is nearly unbreakable with 35's, and pretty good with 37's if you watch it. Plenty of guys run 37's with that setup and only break the occasional locking hub, but others of us don't fare so well. I broke my front D44 (chromo shafts and CTM's) more with 37's than I did my D30 with 33's. Of course, it was used very hard. The weak link is the 19 spline D44 stub shafts, which in my case also always took out the hub and the spinde.

Getting away with running a D30 with 36" tires depends on luck and finesse, but you'd still need to spend the $$ on chromo shafts and aftermarket axle joints, and you would eventually loose the ring and pinion. You might as well spend that money on a D44 and be done with it.

The best thing is to build a 609, but the HP center section and D60 outers are going to cost you more. However, you can easily get by with running Spicer axles and u-joints with 37's, so it might be worth checking into for comparison. But, if you don't have the $$ to buy a locker right away for the D44, you sure don't have the coin to build a 609. BTW, if you're pricing a 609, we've found the most economical way to build one is to use Tera60 outers, the C's and knuckles are the cheapest, and they use Dodge unit bearings and D44 high steer arms. Most in the gang I wheel with use the Tera60 outers.
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dumblucky 07:41 AM 05-16-2008
Originally Posted by clifford210:
So I got my 8.8 and now I am looking for a 44 front. What kind of vehicle could I get a hp44 frontend that I can build and put in my xj. Just looking for a beggining please let me know what you think... or any other options. it is going to be on 36's and eventually have an arb in it... let me know thanks...

i would just buy mine..hp narrowed allloys
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XJOutsider 09:35 AM 05-16-2008
My D44 is a 76 Ford HP housing narrow to the waggy length. 85 Dodge d44 knucles out to get disk breaks and High Steer, and factory trac Lock for now.
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shagy9888 10:50 AM 08-05-2009
Originally Posted by RCman:
Mr. N did a great job writing up some D44 info on swaps:
Part1
Part2
Part3

Like xjtony mentioned, it really depends on what your 8.8 came from to make the final choice, you might end up narrowing it to fit the width of the 8.8 better.


thanx is helps me for what i needed to know
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